January 17, 2024
Good day! I am writing a series of short reviews of abbreviated COGR video clips. I am looking for input and comments. If it makes it easier I will be glad to supply a Word document so comments can be put in the document and we can communicate directly. My email address is lattema@icloud.com. I hope you find these reviews helpful.
Transcript:
Stephen Hargrove states:
Jesus standing at the seven golden candlesticks says his voice is as many waters, yes?
And that does represent the word of God,
but it actually represents the word of God in people.
In Revelation nineteen, you see the same thing.
“I heard a great voice as a sound of many waters and as a great multitude.”
Actually, the voice of many waters is the voice of all nations,
and it actually shows the fullness of all peoples coming into Christ and on the earth.
When Jesus speaks, you’re not hearing a voice of ethereal, intangible voice from heaven; you’re actually hearing the voice of all nations.
In fact, the gentile, the gentile apostleship, is the voice of many waters.
That’s correct, because in these twelve apostles are represented the gentile nations.
And in our voice is the voice of many waters.
I think it’s beautiful. It’s absolutely beautiful.
Commentary:
Stephen began by asking if Jesus said that his voice was as many waters. However, Jesus was not the speaker, John was. John is speaking about what he saw and heard his vision. When he used the term “many waters,” it had to do with the power and the volume of the voice or the sound.[1] In this setting, when Jesus spoke it was the word of God by definition. Stephen tells us that Jesus’ speech “actually represents” the word of God in people. There is nothing in the text that supports that allegation. Jesus is speaking, it is his word. If Stephen is speaking of Revelation 14:2 or 19:6, the context has changed, and in that context, there is a great multitude. From that multitude comes praise and glory for God. So, it does not represent the Word of God but rather praise for God. There is a distinct difference. Even then, he notes that the voice of many waters is the voice of all nations and that it actually shows the fullness of all peoples coming into Christ and on earth. He has even been treating the phrase “voice of many waters” as a noun. It is an adjective, and it describes the sort of sound that is being made. That is a very loud and forceful sound. It is a sound like a rushing river or like the ocean crashing upon the shore. Stephen has missed the fact that ὡς[2] is a simile taking a comparison. This means the voice of many waters is not the voice of all nations and, therefore, does not show the fullness of all people coming into Christ and on the earth. Stephen then goes on to say that when Jesus speaks, we are actually hearing the voice of all nations. How did Stephen get here? What does this mean? Is Jesus now all nations? Stephen then tells us, “In fact, the gentile, the gentile apostleship, is the voice of many waters.” This is a nonsense statement. In what way do the “12 gentile apostles”, a non-existent entity, represent anyone? Do they have an office at the UN, a room at the Vatican, a stateroom at the Whitehouse? Next, Stephen goes on to say, “and our voice is the voice of many waters.” Notice how this ongoing lack of understanding perpetuates itself. Stephen missed the grammar and did not understand the phrase he was dealing with, which was a simile. So now he has turned this adjective into a noun, and we have “the voice of many waters” which miraculously is co-extensive with the 12 gentile Apostles. What is this gentile apostleship? Where is that to be found in Scripture? And by what sleight of hand does the gentile apostleship become the voice of many waters? Remember that in Scripture the expression was preceded by a simile. But now it is used as a predicate nominative.
Following the logic,
the voice of all nations = The voice of many waters (line 6)
Jesus speaking = The voice of all nations (line 9)
the voice of many waters = Gentile apostles (line 10)
⸫ The Gentile apostles = Jesus speaking
Errors:
- Failure to understand grammar.
- Unwarranted assumptions.
- Failure to consider the context of verses.
- Failure of logic. All the premises are wrong.
[1] Ezekiel 1:24 is an example.
[2] καὶ ἡ φωνὴ αὐτοῦ ὡς φωνὴ ὑδάτων πολλῶν
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